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Karl Nickolai
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#8770 - 10/26/10 03:18 PM Re: Stand or Sit during competiiton? [Re: SHUlefty]
Terry Offline
forum member

Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 62
Well stated Joe.

We are parents of 2 collegiate bowlers and have been around the sport a long time. The chanting, cheering, standing and high fiving teammates is what college bowling is all about. Sure there are times we can't see all the action, but we bring our stepladders and would not dream of making bowlers sit so we could see better. They should be watching their teammates ball reactions and be there when they turn around to cheer or pick them up. What energy would be lost in just sitting - and how boring to watch! We are there to share in the experience - THEIR experience. I always tell people who think bowling is boring then they have never watched collegiate bowling. There are no words to describe the energy of the sport that these athletes bring other than awesome.

If there is a perfect venue it was nationals in El Paso this year. Seating for all, a great view, and still being able to cheer loudly with our teams. This is what any national championship deserves.

College bowling is unique in all these ways. These kids will NEVER experience anything like it again in their lives. Please don't take that away from them or our sport.

#8771 - 10/26/10 06:44 PM Re: Stand or Sit during competiiton? [Re: SHUlefty]
westernalum Offline
forum member

Registered: 02/25/07
Posts: 434
Loc: Chicago, IL
There have been many valid points on both sides of the argument and both sides have to be considered. As a former collegiate bowler and now head coach, I think it is ridiculous to ask (require) a team to sit during competition. I certainly would not take my team to any event that required this as it would ruin the experience for the players. And if USBC ever considered adding this to their list of things they are doing to "better the sport", I would seriously consider not coaching or running the Leatherneck Classic any longer.

Now the one comment that I would LOVE to address was from imholte. You mentioned that you trip over other spectators while moving lanes and that is bothersome for you. Well it would be absolutely wonderful if the parents and spectators could just stay put until all of the teams have made their moves to their repsective next pairs and then move. I would love to see a bowling center or tournament institute that rule. Now thinking of it, I will add that to my announcements for the Leatherneck Classic. I think if that were to happen, we could shave off another 30 minutes out of the day. There is nothing worse than having a bowler trying to get through a crowded concourse with five balls and all their other stuff and having parents nudge them out of the way so they could get a chair to sit/stand on.

That is my rant for the day!

Shawn Wochner
University of Wisconsin Whitewater Head Men's Coach
Leatherneck Classic Tournament Director

#8772 - 10/26/10 07:21 PM Re: Stand or Sit during competiiton? [Re: westernalum]
imholte Offline
forum member

Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 5
Loc: Hamilton, OH
I think bowling here (all levels) could begin using the international's events whistle system. It seems that at major international events, the move to your next pair is triggered by a whistle. I think something like that could be used here very well. That way the players and coaches can move first, then as they start their games the spectators can then move and not cause too much problems. And the players would be already bowling, so that would cover up any noise problems the spectators would cause.
#8773 - 10/26/10 09:41 PM Re: Stand or Sit during competiiton? [Re: imholte]
Oldlefthander Offline
forum member

Registered: 10/26/10
Posts: 1
From the USBC Collegiate Website:
"USBC Collegiate & its member schools provide great VISIBILITY for the sport by SHOWCASING the best collegiate athletes throughout the nation."
VISIBILITY-the ability to give a relatively large range of unobstructed vision
SHOWCASING-the act of exhibiting or displaying
I appreciate UNOH honoring that USBC commitment.
I appreciate their efforts in running a successful tournament that included:
Television & Radio exposure experience for the Finalists
Free bottled water for the participants
A bowler's paddock area
A $5.99 all-you-could eat special that was delicious
A courteous and hard working Staff, including that young man that
ran his tail off all day !
I appreciate a College President & Athletic Director who not only were there all day & evening but kept asking people if there was anything they could do to make the experience more enjoyable.
Did your school's last tournament offer any of those considerations and support ?
I appreciate being finally appreciated as a Parent & a Fan, especially after being told repeatedly in these posts that I am not important and I am in the way.
Contrary to Karl's comment about the school writng the check. I AM THE ONE FUNDING MY SON'S COLLEGE EXPERIENCE, INCLUDING BOWLING.
I'm trusting there are enough considerate people out there to make UNOH's next tournament a hugh success.
Ryan & Jay,
Your love & respect for the game is also much appreciated !!!!!

#8774 - 10/27/10 09:41 AM Re: Stand or Sit during competiiton? [Re: Oldlefthander]
Michael Fine Offline
forum member

Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 32
Loc: Florida State University
I think all the points have been made. The only thing I would add is that we would not attend a tournament if we were required to sit.
#8776 - 10/27/10 11:23 AM Re: Stand or Sit during competiiton? [Re: Michael Fine]
Terry_1234 Offline
forum member

Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 1
A note for next year: the bowling alley should have been aware not to serve alcoholic beverages to spectators in the stands. I understand the bar area is ok. There are some college bowlers who are still youth bowlers. Or has this rule changed.
#8778 - 10/27/10 11:39 AM Re: Stand or Sit during competiiton? [Re: RIT_Keegan]
Shutupandbowl Offline
forum member

Registered: 10/19/10
Posts: 5
Standing during Bakers makes perfect sense. It is a different atmosphere and much quicker game, although at sectionals 64 games over 2 days is still punishing and sitting and standing alternately would be OK. As for Kyle's comments, yes it is about the bowler, but think of bowling at a tournament with no one watching. There has to be a happy medium for the fans, mostly parents, siblings and friends, who come to watch the tournaments. Most drive many miles to watch their kids bowl and not being able to enjoy a match because they can't see is frustrating and leaves a bad impression.
#8779 - 10/27/10 02:25 PM Re: Stand or Sit during competiiton? [Re: Shutupandbowl]
uffleshuffle Offline
forum member

Registered: 12/19/06
Posts: 326
Loc: Iowa
Not to completely disagree with your point Shutupandbowl, it does make it more fun for the bowlers to have people cheering. However, I would be putting in the same effort and energy to help my team win if I had 1,000 people watching, or just 6 other teammates and a coach... As I stated before, I have never seen or heard a bowler surveying the crowd and saying that they didn't want to bowl due to the size of the crowd.
Christopher P. Uffman
Assistant Coach
Midland University
Fremont, NE

#8780 - 10/27/10 02:40 PM Re: Stand or Sit during competiiton? [Re: uffleshuffle]
town Offline
forum member

Registered: 12/10/06
Posts: 69
I don't know about you all but there were plenty of times where I was up by the approach watching one of my teammates for a completely different reason that I am surprised no one mentioned (especially Joe S. because I know what a brilliant mad scientist the guy is).

Although a lot of times it was to get hyped up and SUPPORT my team. It was also to get a close, unobstructed, view of exactly where my team mates were playing (starting standing board, finishing sliding board, lay down point, spot at arrows, break point, motion of the ball he is using) There is a lot to view in the sport of bowling to either get a good read for yourself so you can make an adjustment OR help out a team mate that is in a rut. Its complete strategy that I think helped a ton in a team atmosphere.

I'd hate to turn and ask my teammate a question about my last shot that maybe I didn't correctly see and his reply was "sorry I didn't really see, I was back here sitting at the table."

For so many reasons I think that a team that stands together is a more focused team and a more knowledgeable team when regards to breakdowns and lane changes. Id much rather have a team that is aware of lane changes as they progress so we can win than a team that sits at the table.

-Ryan Council
LU 05-09

#8781 - 10/27/10 07:02 PM Re: Stand or Sit during competiiton? [Re: RIT_Keegan]
Shutupandbowl Offline
forum member

Registered: 10/19/10
Posts: 5
I like the topic. I have read all the posts and agree with most of them. Almost all have valid points. Uffman, I know how passionate you are about bowling and I know if there were 3 dogs and a mouse watching it wouldn't change your intensity. I think there has to be a compromise so that teams and players don't lose intensity but spectators get an even break in viewing matches. Having had a son and step daughter who bowled in college I know how important it is for the bowlers to be with their team, cheer them on and get excited about the match and the sport. College bowling is probably one of the purest of intercollegiate sports their is and as such it needs to be appreciated by everyone, participants and fans. The last thing I would want to see is the commercialization of the programs. I know how much my kids loved their times on the lanes with their schools and win or lose it was always about the participating and the comaraderie.
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