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#7345 - 12/01/09 11:20 AM Re: Limit the number of bowlers at school... [Re: RIT_Kerp]
londonproshop Offline
forum member


Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 1
Greetings from across the water!

Forgive me for 'butting in' but I would like to express an opinion which may be helpful. I have recently been appointed Chair of the National Development Forum for the British Tenpin Bowling Association and I keep a keen eye on the Collegiate Bowling landscape as my son is actively involved in his first year on the programme.

My first point is... what a fantastic problem you have! I don't wish to sound disrespectful or dismissive of the multitude of logistical problems that may pose nor overlook the issues of cost, advancement and many other equally persuasive arguements to trim, but let me repeat myself... what a great problem to have.

Here in England I have just hosted a weekend seminar for our junior programme aimed specifically at dealing with the decline in numbers bowling. At every level, we are losing bowlers and as a consequence the sport and the industry in general are in a fragile state.

We are looking at every opportunity to 'grow' our sport, re-invigorate it and return it to the inclusive sport it once was. We have organisational issues but more importantly we have allowed apathy to set root in bowling and now there is a need for a sea change in culture. Our elite bowlers do well around the world, but like all sports that can only be sustained if someone tends to the needs of the vast majority of bowlers from the grass roots level upwards.

That is why I envy your problem and would urge great caution over any steps taken which may create a perception of denying opportunity or access to the bowling student masses.

On a personal level it is fantastic to hear the enthusiasm in my son's voice when he reports back after another "awesome" tournament he has played in. He is used to the bigger stages in his junior European career but nothing compares with the success story you have.

It's going to take a monumental effort to turn our ship round here in England because we are truly in troubled waters... so in the unlikely event of ever being in your position I would only cut back as a last resort and only when every other avenue has been exhausted.

Carry on the great work... you've got a good thing going!

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#7346 - 12/01/09 12:23 PM Re: Limit the number of bowlers at school... [Re: town]
Dugbark Offline
forum member


Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 52
Ryan is correct, the Striking Knights did not have to turn any teams away this year. We had 64 teams in two squads.

Dug Barker

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#7347 - 12/01/09 12:36 PM Re: Limit the number of bowlers at school... [Re: Dugbark]
town Offline
forum member


Registered: 12/10/06
Posts: 69
Now that Dug has replied and said that LU didnt cause any teams to be turned away, I repeat myself...What is the negative in Lindenwood or any big program to throw in 8 teams to these tournaments? If our coach can handle the load of taking that many, our school is ok with it, and the tournament director oks it.

Raises prize fund
Gets lower average bowlers experience
Adds more teams to the competitive field

I just dont see why anyone would want to pass a rule that would exponentially lower the amount of teams that entered a tournament. Doesnt make sense to me. If there is a logistical reason for this then enlighten me because I am all for changing my perspective if it makes sense.



and to add a little more how people keep saying how people from lower down are very rarely (and I keep reading this from almost everyone) jump up into the higher teams in stats...here is something that was posted by Randy on our private team forum.

___________

Just a thought, a couple of bowlers results from tryouts;
29 Setchell, Jacob
32 Johnson, Nate
33 Clayton, Cody
34 Thompson, Chris
35 Roche, Jordan
50 Snyder, Chris

All of this are now in the top 28 and two have made all-tourney teams.
None would have been on the roster with the proposed rule changes.


(and id like to add that cody clayton played a HUGE roll in us winning the orange and black, which was also his college bowling debut)
_______________




Ryan Council
_________________________
council
LU 05-09

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#7348 - 12/01/09 12:48 PM Re: Limit the number of bowlers at school... [Re: town]
houdini84 Offline
forum member


Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 241
town,

I agree that bowlers that finish low in a given tryout could potentially be better than their scores or tryout shows for that given week. and it also works the other way around. sometimes a bowlers tryout makes them out to be better than they really are. it happens all the time. you look at a guy like cody clayton or nate johnson (or possibly anyone on your list)and you know they are much better than they performed at tryouts, but you guys can look at a guy or girl and be able choose the "right" 28 players for your squad. just because someone finishes 15th at your tryouts that doesnt neccisarily mean that their physical/mental game is in the right shape to be a top 28 player on your roster. Thats what would make it tough for a coach.
_________________________
JR Raymond

Mckendree University

http://www.Stormbowling.com

The start of a new beginning

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#7349 - 12/01/09 01:08 PM Re: Limit the number of bowlers at school... [Re: houdini84]
town Offline
forum member


Registered: 12/10/06
Posts: 69
JR,

what u desrcribed right there are more reasons why I dont think that there should be a cut/restriction on how many "eligble" bowlers you are allowed for a given semester...i dont think someone should be penalized/rewarded for an entire semester for one (well ours is two weekends) worth of work. I think that you should let the players continually have a chance to prove themselves out their in the field.

I dont really agree with the fact that you "cam look at a guy or a girl and be able to choose the "right" 28 players for the squad" There are some very unconventional styles and/or looking bowlers that you wouldnt be able to see and guess that they will get the job done. There are also people that look like they throw the ball amazing and have great form but cant hit the same spot twice. Let them bowl few tournaments, the talent typically rises to the top after a certain amount of games.


Thank you all again for listening (well reading) and keeping this all civil as my posts are not meant to attack anyone, just expressing my views.


Ryan council
_________________________
council
LU 05-09

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#7350 - 12/01/09 01:13 PM Re: Limit the number of bowlers at school... [Re: town]
houdini84 Offline
forum member


Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 241
I agree, I know alot of guys that look like crap but find ways to get the job done (to an extent)= (stay out of trouble), but i would take my chances with a guy/girl that has the physical game and teach them to be consistant rather than working with someone who is "mediocur" and have to change alot to make them that much better. then again it all comes down to whether the kid is coachable or not. so it could go either way i guess.
_________________________
JR Raymond

Mckendree University

http://www.Stormbowling.com

The start of a new beginning

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#7351 - 12/01/09 01:15 PM Re: Limit the number of bowlers at school... [Re: houdini84]
town Offline
forum member


Registered: 12/10/06
Posts: 69
def agree with you jr...when it comes to that stuff, def all depends on if the player is willing to learn.
_________________________
council
LU 05-09

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#7352 - 12/01/09 01:17 PM Re: Limit the number of bowlers at school... [Re: houdini84]
houdini84 Offline
forum member


Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 241
And im not saying i wouldnt work with the mediocur player, I would take the time to help anyone, but making someone a good player is easier when they have a good foundation to work with.

just to clear my last comments up
_________________________
JR Raymond

Mckendree University

http://www.Stormbowling.com

The start of a new beginning

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#7353 - 12/01/09 02:00 PM Re: Limit the number of bowlers at school... [Re: houdini84]
gocards300 Offline
forum member


Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 3
Loc: Belleville, IL
I think the mid-season adds / subtractions is a key issue here. Granted, Illinois will not have 28 guys on the team any time soon if ever, but with as many players we've added or subtracted during the season in recent years I think this must be addressed.

One solution might be to enable coaches to add more than 28 players at the beginning of the season to the player registration list and then edit the list throughout the season. In the interest of transparency, this "active roster of 28" could then be posted with the coach's contact information on the USBC site. I know the current bowl.com has its flaws, but I found the online registration system to be pretty good, and I don't see a reason why the system couldn't be edited to have an "active/inactive" feature to it. This way teams with 28+ bowlers would always be able to field 28 bowlers in the case of injury, ineligibility, or what have you.

As far as the number of teams per tournament goes, if there are remaining spots and extra (B,C,D,E) teams waiting to fill them, I see no reason why these extra teams shouldn't be allowed to bowl. They've earned their spots and deserve a chance.
_________________________
Lee Boudouris
Illinois 05-09

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#7354 - 12/01/09 02:19 PM Re: Limit the number of bowlers at school... [Re: gocards300]
VUbowl Offline
forum member


Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 74
Ryan,
I think a lot of what you are talking about, kind of as JR referred to as well, is a "coaching philosophy." Meaning that it's basically an individual coaches decision on how to select players, whether its through tryouts, competition, or just instinct. In reality that becomes part of the "sport" and part of what makes the difference between one coach over another one.

There is no doubt all of us would pick better players if we were able to watch them bowl under our competitive lights before selecting, but in essence, that becomes one of the X factors in coaching, the ability to select players that will fit your team with limited prior knowledge about how they might handle it.

I dont think we could, or for that matter should, write our rules around those types of issues. If anything that actually detracts from the sporting aspect of coaching.

Even having said that though, the players that you cited, with really only one exception, none of them came from very far off of the "28" number, and that becomes a debate about the "number" and not about whether the rule as its intent is, should be implemented.

Gary Sparks
Vincennes University
NCBCA Vice President

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